[ Cheers and applause ]

Good to see you back here.

James: Pleasure to be here.

Bill: Thank you.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Okay. Now, Mary Louise, you are the reigning Miss Wisconsin.

Mary Louise: That's right.

Bill: Well, congratulations.

Mary Louise: Thank you, Bill.

[ Laughter ]

Bill: They're always so polite -- when they're reigning, yeah.

Mary Louise: Just wait, yeah.

Bill: Exactly. Then they kick you to the curb and it's all bitterness. Anyway -- no, I'm kidding. I'm interested in what you have to say, and that's of course, why we booked you. Because this is a very interesting point. You say -- your platform -- now, of course, when you're Miss whatever you are, you always have a platform. I don't know why it can't just be [ bleep ] and ass -

Mary Louise: Miss America -

[ Laughter ]

Bill: But they have to have a platform. And yours was abstinence.

Mary Louise: It is abstinence.

Bill: It is abstinence.

Mary Louise: Yes.

Bill: Okay. And -

[ Laughter ]

What?

[ Applause ]

No, you are a board certified virgin, are you not?

Mary Louise: I absolutely am.

Bill: Yes, you are. All right, I'm not here to quibble with that. What interests me is, you say that if you had changed your platform to, I think, it was college education or career -- something education, you would have done better. That the pageant -

Mary Louise: Actually, that premise is not exactly true. What happened was - Bill: Well, then, get out of here, we have Miss Ohio.

[ Laughter ]

Please -- Miss Ohio, please, come out here.

Mary Louise: No. What happened was, after I was crowned Miss Wisconsin, the organization, the Miss America organization, had said that they were somewhat uncomfortable with the abstinence platform, and so I was encouraged to change my platform to something more politically correct, like education.

Bill: And that's my point, is that if the Miss America pageant, of all places, thinks that you are too square, where can the squares go?

Mary Louise: Oh, my God.

[ Laughter ]

Bill: I'm serious about this.

[ Applause ]

I would think of all places, the Miss America would embrace abstinence -

Mary Louise: Well, actually -

Bill: That would be their kind of thing.

Mary Louise: I know, you would think so, actually. You would think so.

Bill: So have they drifted so far to the left -

Mary Louise: Actually, the majority -

Bill: Has the country drifted so far to the left, that even Miss America -

Mary Louise: Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely -- well, I think that the organizations actually -- or the contestants are actually more representative of America than Hollywood is. I mean, for example -

Bill: That's a shot at you.

[ Laughter ]

James: I don't particularly want to represent America, frankly.

Mary Louise: No, you know, we turn on the TV and we see all these teens having sex. And yet, the majority of teens today in America, according to centers for disease control, are virgins.

Bill: 'Cause they can't get it.

[ Laughter ]

Not because they don't want it.

Mary Louise: No.

Bill: Yeah, I was a virgin till I was 16, too, not by choice.

Mary Louise: No, that's not true. You know -

Bill: Right?

James: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Tray: You want to get laid.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Mary Louise: The thing is though, that, I've had plenty of opportunities to have sex.

Bill: Well, you're a chick, no kidding.

James: You're beautiful.

Mary Louise: But the thing is that I'm holding out for something more, because sex -- we're not just like animals in the barnyard. Sexuality is something beautiful. It's so beautiful, it's worth waiting for.

James: But I think it starts with animals in a barnyard.

[ Laughter ]

It does. It does. And then it grows into something more.

Bill: Yes, exactly.

Tray: The first shot of pleasure factor as well that's involved, you don't just look at sex as like, "Well, I'm giving away this treasured part of my body so everything has to be correct in the situation." You know what I mean? It's just like you just might want to feel good one night.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Mary Louise: You know, it's interesting, Tray -

James: You're in Hollywood, honey, I'm sorry.

Mary Louise: I know. Well, Tray, what's interesting is that studies show that -

Bill: That was beautifully stated, Tray.

[ Laughter ]

I'm gonna use that myself.

Mary Louise: Studies show that people who have the most pleasurable sex are married.

Bill: You know what?

Mary Louise: I agree, I think that -

Bill: Studies lie and married people lie.

Mary Louise: And Bill Maher lies, too.

Bill: I don't lie.

Mary Louise: And Bill Maher lies.

Bill: No. What do I lie about?

Mary Louise: I don't know. You're saying that sex, you know, we're just kind of like animals in the barnyard. And I'm saying that -

Bill: No, you said animals in the barnyard.

Mary Louise: I'm saying it's something that's much more meaningful.

James: I said that.

Mary Louise: Thanks, James.

James: But I think you're right, there is something much more meaningful. But I think that there's, at least speaking personally, that premarital sex is something that can lead to something more meaningful. But it does -

Mary Louise: Yeah, it can lead to something more meaningful.

Nicole: But the problem I'm having is saying that any relationship that is not a marriage is not beautiful and meaningful intrinsically, which is not necessarily the case. A lot of people are living together for years at a time.

Mary Louise: Right.

Nicole: And gay marriages. Oh, woop. They never get married. But, you know, they're having fun.

[ Laughter ]

Bill: And if you want to talk about what's a lie, where does a lie come from? To me, nature is the truth. Nature is dictating that as teenagers, we have sex all the time. That is when you are most in your hormonal glory. So isn't it a lie to suppress what nature is dictating to you?

Mary Louise: No, it is not.

James: It's not a lie because it's not good enough for us. As human beings, we get bored with just procreation. We must have something much more meaningful to occupy our time.

Bill: Rubber toys.

[ Cheers and applause ]

James: No. No.

Bill: I have to take a commercial, we'll come back to this. I know, that was a terrible thing. I don't mean rubber toys.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Bill: I know everyone here has an issue to address from the last segment. Let me go to you, 'cause you're talking about -- you want to talk about the pageant, the platform.

Mary Louise: It was sort of -- it's not even -

Bill: 'Cause they have platforms, right? You can -

Mary Louise: Yes, in the Miss America program, right, there are platforms.

Bill: Right, like stay in school, abstinence, healing communities through mentorship.

Mary Louise: Right, right.

Bill: Helping seniors.

Mary Louise: Well-researched, right.

Nicole: What I find so funny about that is -- and I think you're just wonderful, but -

[ Laughter ]

The idea that -

Mary Louise: Uh-oh.

Nicole: The idea that people have to have platforms, it's like -- who cares?

James: But wait a minute, what's the platform?

Nicole: Does anyone remember, like, I want the one who has the children's schooling fund. You want the girl in the white dress who's got the big boobs.

Tray: That's what I was saying -

Nicole: I don't remember any of the platforms.

Tray: I figured that they got at her like that about changing her platform based solely on, they want the clean wholesome Miss America image behind the abstinence, behind "I'm gonna send my kids to school, get the white picket fence," you know, all that. They want the beautiful and the glamorous, but they don't want the sexy and the freaky.

[ Laughter ]

James: But they want it to be sexy, they still want it to be sexy.

[All talking at once ]

Tray: Freaky-witted, though. Yeah.

James: That's too bad, though. Yeah.

Mary Louise: Well, the thing is that when -

Bill: It bothers me that they coach you this way, that they program you like you're a politician, like you're George Bush, like it's a focus group.

Mary Louise: Or Al Gore.

Nicole: Yeah, but they also tell them how to stand and how to -- there's a lot of things they tell them how to do.

Bill: But I mean -- I know, but it's like, "You'll do better if you say this," well, that's what they tell Al Gore. That's what they told you.

Mary Louise: No, that's not really what they told me.

Bill: You just said that. You said if you shied away from the abstinence and went toward the education, you'd have done better. That's what they tell Bore and Gush. They say, "Don't say this, say this."

Tray: How many years they have the pageant, though?

Mary Louise: It's true, that the platforms really, I don't think have that great an interest to the audience watching a Miss America pageant, they're downplaying it. But the thing is that the platforms gave a young woman meaning to her year. For example, my year, I've spoken to over 90,000 teenagers about abstinence, and it's been very exciting and fulfilling for me. So it gives you a vehicle -

Bill: Not for them.

[ Laughter ]

James: The pageant used to be -

[ Applause ]

Mary Louise: Bill, you should come with me. You should come with me.

Bill: Oh, that poor 90,000 kids.

Mary Louise: No, you should come with me.

Bill: I should [ Bleep ]with you? You're a virgin, how could I?

[ Cheers and applause ]

Mary Louise: Oh, man.

James: Don't you think that the pageant is a search for the perfect woman. Right, someone -- whoever runs the pageant -- his idea of the perfect woman. And women are more than T&A now. They do have political views, they want to impress that, so maybe that's gonna go into the mix. I mean -

Nicole: But what they're saying -- but they're saying is just a little more T&A. That's what they were saying, not "No T&A."

Mary Louise: I think that's true.

Bill: But it's a T&A contest. So if you champion abstinence, it would undercut the idea that these girls were putting out. And that wouldn't be -

Mary Louise: Well, swimsuit is only worth 15%, you're only on stage 15 seconds in swimsuit.

James: Not from where I'm sitting.

[ All talking at once ]

Mary Louise: The thing is, okay -- the most beautiful woman doesn't always win, but, yeah, looks are a part of it.

Bill: We are really much more a liberal country than we admit. I'm not endorsing that or saying it's good or bad, I'm just saying -

James: What is liberal about America?

Bill: People don't like the word liberal, but if the Miss America pageant doesn't want to you say "Abstinence," if people are okay with President Clinton and his indiscretions, if they're really for gun control -

James: People are okay with President Clinton's indiscretions?

Bill: Then isn't it really a liberal country?

Nicole: I don't think so.

James: We were a country looking at a whole new world, Russia's falling apart. Japan is about to go down the tubes and we're talking about the president's crotch?

[ Laughter ]

Nicole: We weren't.

James: We are so conservative.

Nicole: No, we weren't talking about it. The media was talking about it.

James: The whole country.

Bill: Why do you think he's still sitting in office? Because the people supported him and thought that the press and the Congress -

James: We elected George Bush -- I'm sorry, Bill -- we elected George Bush after Iran Contra. We -- Clinton, when he got in office, had a Democratic house and Senate, couldn't get health care passed, couldn't get gun control passed. Could get almost nothing done at all.

Bill: Right.

James: And because -- we are not a liberal country.

Bill: But that's Congress. I'm talking about the people. The people are for gun control. The people are for health care.

James: If the people really were and pressured their Congressmen, they would fold over in a second.

Bill: They are. They're liberal but apathetic. They don't pressure their Congressmen.

[ Applause ]

That's true.

Nicole: Exactly.

James: But what about -- wait a minute. What about the death penalty, what about the death -- We're still actually talking about the death penalty and abortion. The rest of the world is going, "Why are you still even debating these issues?" Arch conservative issues.

Mary Louise: I think people are searching for people who, you know, do have values and upstand them in society. I mean, we look at somebody like general Powell, who has an amazing popularity rating.

Bill: He upstands them all the time.

James: I don't look to politicians for any kind of moral leadership whatsoever. They work for me. They are slime balls and thank God, they're afraid of me.

[ Laughter ]

[ Applause ]

Bill: Let's take a break. -- [ Cheers and applause ]

Announcer: Join us tomorrow, when our guests will be the fisherman who saved Elian Gonzalez Donato Dalrymple, from "The Parkers" Mo'nique, Chairman of Judicial Watch Larry Klayman and singer/songwriter Jill Sobule.

[ Applause ]

Bill: All right. We were talking about whether this country is liberal than people think -- or the media says actually. I think the people really are. Here's a good example -- the powers that be versus the people. There's a guy who has just got fired for sexual harassment, which is a common thing that happens in the workplace. He got a pierced penis. Yeah.

[ Laughter ]

Tray: Mmm.

James: Yeah, whatever, you know.

Bill: This made the papers. It's called Prince Albert. Has anybody heard of this? The Prince Albert? I don't know what it is. I don't want to know what it is. I hope my boyfriend doesn't get it.

[ Laughter ]

All right. So here's the kicker to the story. He works -- he was telling his co-workers about this. And that's why he got fired for sexual harassment because you can't do that in the workplace, except he works at a porno distribution company.

[ Laughter ]

There were -- they were dubbing hard-core "XXX" tapes, wrapping up latex -

James: And vaginas.

Bill: Courtney Love was in the complaint department. This was a hard-core porno operation where he got fired for talking about the little operation he had over the weekend.

Tray: He talked or exposed?

Bill: Well, he offered to expose, but he just talked. He was like, "Yeah, you want to see it"? Somebody said "Hey, what do you mean? That's sexual harassment." And sure enough, he got canned.

Nicole: I think what's interesting of the sexual harassment thing, we've lost the definition of harassed. Like at some point of sexual harassment, someone has to be harassed. Someone must be offended or effected negatively in some way. They have to be a little numb to the penis.

James: Am I hearing you correctly? Wait a minute. Am I hearing you correctly that because someone works in the sex industry they have less right to legal protection than other people?

Bill: I think context is important when you are talking about sexual harassment. I do. I think if you are working in a place where everyone is dealing with sex all the time, yes, that should come into play.

Tray: But was it a customer or an employee that he was talking to?

Bill: These are all just employees.

Tray: Oh, and he showed it to another employee?

Bill: Yes, he's talking to his fellow workers. He was saying, "Look, I had a fun thing happen over the weekend."

James: Wait a minute.

Bill: I had a Rod inserted in my metal Rod.

James: Even if someone is a porn star, even if they do that for a living, right? If they go off the set and are going to their dressing room and don't want someone whipping out his Johnson, they shouldn't have to deal with that. That's just -- I think that that supposition is dangerously close to saying that a woman who dressed provocatively should have to be raped or have to put up with that.

Bill: I don't see that analogy at all.

Nicole: What?

James: Yeah, because they work in the porn industry they should have to suffer some guy talking about -

Nicole: It's not like show up at 8:00 -- between 8:00 and 9:00, we'll be showing you penises with needles through them. It happened once. It was a conversation. It was a mistake, and someone could say, "You know what? I don't appreciate that." But get fired?

James: Your argument's good but because it has nothing to do with the fact that this person worked in a porn shop. You know, I agree with you on those bounds.

Tray: You can assume they see penises more than sandwiches up in there.

James: So what?

[ Laughter ]

Maybe they're sick of it today. Maybe they don't want to deal with it.

Tray: I mean, I can see if he said, "Okay, I got half of my ass knocked off." You know what I'm saying?